jansenboy

Newspaper report today that COV is going downwards thus it says "cooling measures" have worked. One thing I don't understand is this. COV goes down but isn't it because Valuation go up? In that case why has the "cooling measures" work?? People are paying more for their flats. The only differences surely is that the bank is willing to lend them more. Are Singaporeans really that dumb to think that COV goes down means flats are more affordable or is that all they actually care about w/o regards what is the actual cost of the flats they are buying. I go to Courts. have to put a 10% downpayment on $10,000 worth of items. Pay $1000 Now Courts charge me $12,000 but I only pay 5% so does that mean my funitures are more "affordable" now. Can someone explain where my logic went wrong or am I actually correct and MBT is trying to trick us into thinking he is doing a great job?

Good news (From GOV point-of view) must announce quickly....such as how COV "appearently" has dropped!This not backed by research but just what Mr ABC from XYZ housing agency say. Must make 1st time Singaporean buyer feel happy what. So can justify that the new policies work! Not so good news such as how re-sale prices have increase once more (despite the policies), this one back with REAL statatics, must then try to hide behind the information. For example can say that the new price increase is smaller than the previous Quarter. From 4.1% to 4%.

Lol It's good to know that the media actually manage to "twist" the news and say that resale price increaement slowed down. By 0.1%! See, the new policies work!

At the risk of sounding silly, I just want to clarify one point which I don't fully understand. What it means is that two PR siblings can combine together to buy a re-sale, but the same does not apply to Spore citizen? Means if i want to combine with my bro/sis to buy I can't? Whaaa, if that's the case then the rule is yet another miserable showcase of the lack of logic at the top. Am I understanding it correct? it simply doesn't make sense to me personally. Sorry myself still quite young and there are so many regulation here and there and every few months also change, how can anyone except for a house agent keep up.

back in may Minister Mah also says, “The House Ownership Scheme is most beneficial to Singapore because it could ultimately allow house owners to sell their flats for a profit and use it for retirement. Selling flats at cost price would not achieve such aim.” http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/...instead-of.html So HDB suppose to sell for retirment or for staying? Can the minister make up his mind?? No wonder the lay people like us are getting confuse.

Should I buy or sell? With the new rules, it is a better market for home buyers than sellers, so buyers should take the opportunity to negotiate a good price for their dream home. Buyers should not be too inflexible, as prices will most likely fall with increased supply. What a funny statement, he says that the new rules favor the buyer yet go along to say in the next line that buyers should not be too inflexible as price will fall Doesn't make sense, if he think prices will fall surely won't that mean that buyer all the more can choose to be more selective?? To think this was printed in our newspaper.

Firstly you are assuming that the price will come down. That's just what some people think. What if you backout, face all the potential problem and then realize prices don't really drop? Like what some people say, if you like the place then there is no problem isn't it. It's not like stock because stock u are in there only for investment purposes whereas home your primary objective is for staying. Lastly you buy before the cut off also got some advantage. Meaning after 3 years if you want you can rent out...provided you never take any kind of grant.

I read it. Do you agree? ST also more or less must explain why the Govt policy works best. Since when did you see a ST articles saying that the Govt policy is not the best solution? In ST view, Govt always have the best solution. The writer did mention that she think the Govt will sooner or later change the "private property must sell" rule. Which is one of the point I am making.

You are right, I won't be surprise at the very least if a few cases are make as "examples". Similar to what the Govt did via HDB when they re-possess some HDB flats a few months ago as they clamp on the ruling. Nevertheless just like the rental restrictions, people find ways to go about it. I am merely pointing out some "viable" ways off my mind that PR can easily utilise to legally go around the "no overseas property" when buying HDB. I do not know the complications in transferring property in overseas country such as Malaysia, China, India. I am relatively certain though that if a PR really want a flat, he/she will definitely not mind the hassle of doing some paperwork that will serve to benefit him in the long run. I mention PR because they are most likely to have overseas property even though singaporeans are able to do the same thing as well. In any case, I am just pointing out a obvious loophole. Whether it is realistic or not is up to individuals preferences and not for you to decide. Maybe you think it's not worth your time, others might not agree. I hope the Govt will be able to enforce the policies that they create and I will hate for it to be just a "unenforced" policy. Seeing as how over the past years HDB already got some problems finding out who rent out illegally in Singapore, I think it is safe to say they will definitely have much bigger problem checking if Mr X and Mr Y own any property in ABC country. As mentioned in my original post, I look forward to hopefully hearing some clear measures in ensuring that this new policies are enforce correctly. But until there, I will have to go with my opinion that it doesn't seemed to serve any purpose other than to allow Govt to say that they are doing something.

Personally my opinion is that most of the latest measures are just policies in place in a desperate and pathatic attempt to try "bluff" first time buyer into thinking the Govt is trying to put them first and "think" for them ahead of a possible election. Any idiot will know that it will be impossible for any govt in the world to try control the ownership of property outside it's own country. Even if they could, this simple problem can be easily avoided by transferring the property legally to some relatives/parent/son of the original owner. Unfortuntately, it seems that there are more idiots than we think in Singapore who might believe this policy might work. Like I mention earlier, all these policy does is stop potential HDB seller from wanting to sell their HDB esp if it is to fund the purchase of a private property. This will not make them think twice (rather they won't think at ALL) about selling their HDB anymore as all the restrictions that come with buying another re-sale flat in the future will just be too much. Today Straits Times got people want to buy re-sale flat, happy as they think that now they will be able to afford one. I would be very interested to know if there is anyone with a good example of how it is harder instead to get one as the amount of sellers evaporates. Singaporeans won't sell, PR who got re-sale already lagi won't sell. Owners of private properties as well as those who already have re-sale flats will be happy as their rental will definitely shoot up over time. With regards to the overseas policies, I am open to being corrected and humbled and look forward to seeing our minister explain how is it that they intend to enforce the rule to make sure that nobody is able to exploit the policy and thus prove my views of it wrong. But more likely than not, I think what we will hear is a number of "clarification" and "adjustments" to the rule in the future that will slowly come quietly and in time to help PR get over this problem of owning a home overseas while having a HDB. To be fair, I agree that the seller stamp be extended to 3 years and 30% downpayment if you already got an existing loan are good policies to be implemented, but the others I just cannot agree

How will the measure works in keeping private property prices from going up if PR now have lesser choice and have to go towards the private sectors? All it does it make demands for smaller units increase.

I think even before 2007 there were other HDB policies that have since flip here and then a few years ago flip there and etc.. I am too young too remember, but I heard there was a time whereby there was some stuff that say that if you got HDB and Private you must stay in your HDB and rent out your private?? not clear if it was a policy or minister just comment only. perhaps the older members on the board will be able to enlighten. At the end of the day, politicians everywhere is all the same. They say what they need at different time. Of course in other countries there is usually a strong opposition group to voice out if a certain politician change his tune too much. In singapore sometimes they get away with it. Ask yourself outside this forum will Singaporeans actually think so much as us? All they think is perhaps Govt doing more to help them....without thinking any deeper. It be interesting if someone comes out with a list of the policy changes that HDB has adjusted over the years.

Most students that do go to Aust usually have to incur additional cost as they have to rent a place to stay. In a way, your brother is slighly fortunate previously as he doesn't have to spend additional money on rental. From a 3rd person point of view, I would say that you should sell the property and your brother should rent a place while he is studying (esentially that's what all singaporean students do). That will leave u with no problem for whatever you want to buy. In a way, your predictment also stem because you are an Aust PR (something most people can only dream of) so I guess its one of those case whereby you have a problem because you have more decisions to make. Whereas most of young singaporeans do not have to worry about having overseas property. Personally though, I won't be surprise if this "overseas" policy gets reviewed after a while as alot of details regarding it (like how they will enforce and such) are not revealed yet. It's still early days and this policy could possibly still be adjusted. You might want to wait a while first to see if there are any updates regarding it. Of course how long that will be nobody knows, just my gut feel.

Even those with a HDB looking to upgrade to a condo will be less willing to sell. In the past, perhaps a family might be willing to sell their HDB and upgrade to a Condo. But with this new policy, there will be no incentive at all for the family to give up their HDB as they will have problems buying it back in the future if they want to (have to sell their private) More likely than not, people will pay downpayment (30%), and then rent out their HDB and use the money pay installment for private. If not enough money, then rent out their private and move back to their HDB. Worst case scenario just sell their private. I stated in another post sometimes must see from the other side of the coin. People keep on saying HDB price will go down because PR now got problems buying re-sale. But how can the price go down if no one willing to sell their HDB flats anymore? I am quite sure about 8-9/10 people on this forum will not want to sell their HDB anymore with this new policy unless they are looking to upgrade from small HDB to larger HDB. Anyone who intend in the future to buy private will DEFINITELY not sell their HDB as they will be unable to own one once they buy a private property. As for the overseas thing, someone should ask MBT how they will enforce it. The next few months will be very interesting. I for one will not be surprise at all if some "adaptions are added" to the overseas policy

I agree. There is no way they can ensure that. Personally I think that the overseas thing was a last min inclusion (meaning that they didn't realize the situation of people possibly owning "private property" overseas and buying HDB)

A slightly better understanding of your situation. I thought you were aust citizen and Spore PR. Since you suggest your brother is studying there. Personally don't think it make sense to sell as he would then have to fork out money to rent. Perhaps after he has finished his education would it be wiser to sell since your family will save money on the rental he would thus have to pay. If u can afford it, perhaps buying private would be a better idea. Another alternative you can consider should be selling the property once you have no use for it (if your bro finished his education and not staying there anymore). Buy HDB using ur CPF and then wait 5 years before investing in private in Singapore. As for you not renting out your place in Aust, you gotta understand that the Govt doesn't care...as far as they are concern, they can't let it be a case of people buying overseas (renting out for income). And then taking the rent money from overseas to pay for the installment for HDB and thus being able to afford more than they commonly should and jacking the price of HDB in the process. I guess their view also is that if you can afford a "holiday home" then you should not be one of those that need help even though like you stated it was ur parents that paid for it. Bopian. Unless you are willing to part with the home perhaps after your bro is done with his education.

I don't think that re-sale price will go down as what everyone claim will happen. Simple reason is this, If I have a re-sale flat now, there will be absolutely no incentives for me to sell now. If I am intending to upgrade to a private property. I will die die try to hold on to both. Selling a re-sale and buying private means in the future I won't be able to buy re-sale again. Likewise for those who currently own both private and HDB will definitely not sell their HDB as that will be their only chance to ever own HDB (unless they intend to sell their private which I don't think anyone will) Yes demand will go down as PR will be force out of the market unless they sell their overseas home (or find a way around it). But you ask yourself where will the supply come from now onwards? Just ask who in this forum will want to sell their HDB now, I think it be difficult to find much people. Likewise private property I don't think will drop, reason being that PR/Foreigner cannot buy HDB without giving up their overseas property so there is a good chance quite a large amount of them with look towards those mass-market condo instead. The remainder will rent either private or HDB which also mean that rental is likely to go up. The additional 10% required upfront will stop some people from being able to buy as well, but it is impossible to see if the amount of people who are unable to afford will be more than the no of PR/Foreigner who turn to private instead of buying HDB. If I am a PR, I probably will rent out my unit back home and can use the money to supplement my installment if I buy private in Singapore. If I want to buy HDB, then I will have to sell my unit back home which means I will also lose out the money i stand to make from my rental. At the end of the day, I might just realize is better to buy private. Like what someone say, just because the measure are in doesn't mean automatically will drop. Sometimes must think from the other side. How can re-sale price drop if everyone intend to hold their HDB from now onwards due to the new ruling? Personally I think prices will not drop much short-term for HDB, might even go up. Mass-market condo might be affected for just awhile but could possibly rebound as more PR turn to private for their home. Rental likely to go up for both HDB and Private. One thing is for sure, the amount of transection most probably will go down significantly esp for re-sale

I don't think that re-sale price will go down as what everyone claim will happen. Simple reason is this, If I have a re-sale flat now, there will be absolutely no incentives for me to sell now. If I am intending to upgrade to a private property. I will die die try to hold on to both. Selling a re-sale and buying private means in the future I won't be able to buy re-sale again. Likewise for those who currently own both private and HDB will definitely not sell their HDB as that will be their only chance to ever own HDB (unless they intend to sell their private which I don't think anyone will) Yes demand will go down as PR will be force out of the market unless they sell their overseas home (or find a way around it). But you ask yourself where will the supply come from now onwards? Just ask who in this forum will want to sell their HDB now, I think it be difficult to find much people.

My first post on this board though I have been trolling around. Decided to finally signup and post! Ely this is my personal take on the situation You are unfortunately one of those affected by the sudden and unexpected tougher measures that the Govt intends to take on HDB flats. While I sympathise with your situation, I would say that the Govt has it's own reason for the new policy. There are many people, Singaporeans included who are as affected as you if not more. For example, A couple heading into retirement who intends to rent out their private property and stay in a re-sale HDB in their old age will have their retirement plan dented serverly. I am not talking about a rich couple but perhaps one who just happen to buy private homes when it is cheap. To me, their situation is alot worse than yours. Back to your situation. I guess now is the important thing to ask yourself is whether or not you ever intend to move back to your home country in the near future. What I mean is this. If you are intending to work in Singapore for just a few years and then perhaps move back, then I am sorry but the Govt want people like you to rent a HDB if you want cheaper source of housing. The policy is very simple and I will not try to "design" my words too much. HDB is for Singaporean family to stay in. You might think it is harsh but I think other countries have more restrictive policies than Singapore. I am not exactly sure with the details but Australia for example do not allow foreigners to own property or smth similar(pls correct me if I am wrong). The Govt though will allow you to buy re-sale HDB if you feel it is not worth financially for yourself to rent (if you are intending to stay in Singapore for a long time). But for that on your part you will have to sell your overseas property. Simple truth is that they don't want you to earn income from your overseas rent and thus have more money to be able to jack up HDB prices in Singapore thus causing young couple family in Singapore who do not have such earning capabilities as yourselves to be priced out (I know you do not rent out your overseas property but that's beside the point because the Govt have to assume you do). U might think it is unfair to you but the truth is the Govt cannot have a situation of PR like yourself being able to rent out their overseas home while they are here and then having the financial capabilities of jacking up the prices and then selling your home in the future. Think of the young singapore couples who have no chance of competing with PR (unlike you as you do not rent out ur home) who are able to tap on their rental income overseas. So basically you have to choose whether or not you prefer a HDB here or your overseas home and that choice will be dependening on your personal intentions in the near-mid term future. I can't say which is better as only you yourself will know best. Personally though, my honest opinion is that this overseas policy was implemented in quick slip-short decision(meaning i believe they didn't think of the possible scenario of foreigners owning overseas and quickly included that when asked). As most have rightly pointed out, checking whether you do own overseas is impossible for the Govt to ensure in reality (too much cost, too much manpower required). But lets take it as they can check in your case. You will either need to Rent HDB, Sell overseas and buy HDB or simply go private if you can afford it.