blueocean

But the role of the "real ID" is to be able to provide 3D rendering, sketching etc Before computer designing became so popular ... being able to do up a sketches is a necessary skill of a "real ID" person ... now it is easier with computers. There is always much confusion of whom IDs are .... Most of the IDs consumers meet are actually general contractors but have a retail shopfront. The bigger ones employ sales people (or called "Design Consultants") who also do the co-ordination work and have an internal interior designer team. For the designs, some use "recycled" designs or have a small team of overworked interior designers to churn out designs or outsource it to freelance interior designers ... So your co-coordinator or sales person will act as the middle person to the company's team of interior designers. If the client is not really bothered with 3D work, designs ... the sales person is even happier ! At the end of the day, the sales person has to meet his sales quota. 2D layout is easy to come up and you can always plan it yourself with freely available software around. 3D rendering is even easier to come up with too (like Intericad software which comes complete with lighting, ceiling designs) and you dont need to learn how to use complicated software A real ID is someone who has a training in that area and necessary experience. They have a passion for coming up with designs adapted to the client's likes and not some "recycled" designs. They help to do space planning (inclusive of dimensions of your individual spaces in your cabinet and what you can put there), lighting plans (they calculate whether there is sufficient lighting for that area and not just a rough estimation that you need these X number of lights there), colour and material selection etc I wish companies would stop using the term "interior design" when in fact they dont even employ people with the necessary training and background ...

Didnt the ID provide a schedule ? Painting is always an issue. After so many different tradesmen come in, the painted walls will get blemished. Sometimes the painter will just paint that particular spot during touch ups and if you look at a particular angle, the blemishes is obvious. And also during touch up, the painter may not lay any protectors and the paint will drip to your stuff .... And then protecting the floors .... The flooring protection sometimes gets uncovered as the renovation progresses ... and then scratches on floor Installing sanitary fittings and carpentary works - i guess it is not a problem if you dont have any concealed pipes/electrical wires - the carpenter will sometimes drill into pipes accidentally if they dont use a metal detector or refer to plans. I wonder whether most people experience this ?

Of cos can settle between each other is the best situation ! Cos 3.8k is not going to be worth the legal and court fees for both parties. Litigation is always the last avenue when all else fails. But it is always good to be aware of avenues the consumer can go ... The stresses with residential renovation are (1) it involves many months of salary (2) it is personal as it is your home (3) time factor. And therefore, emotions will definitely run high. Most people will accept that there will be defects, but the important thing is how the contractor manages the expectations of the consumer, addresses his concerns and attempts to solve the problems as it arises. It is all part of quality management isnt it ? Feedback also allows the main contractor to be aware of the quality output of his tradesmen or sub-contractors. Also, before the renovation commences, if the contract spells out clearly all the liquidated damages eg for delays, how to arbitrate for sub-standard works - all these will be clear. But of course, most contractors dont want all these and will leave these as vaguely as possible as they want the flexibility ... At the end of the day, the consumer has to stay and live in the renovated house for the next few years. The contractor can always move on to the next house. And can always close and re-open under a new business names (it also wipes the previous debt clean !). Unfortunately the consumer can't "reboot" his renovation.

If last payment is only $3.8k, it wouldnt make sense for the contractor to engage a lawyer to serve a writ of summons A lot of time and $ wasted for this amount though ... Anyway, need to file a memorandum within a week on receiving the writ of summons ... Then got 3 weeks to find lawyer to file a defence and counterclaims to magistrates' court ...

A easy to use software is also Intericad which is designed for interior design works. See http://www.ts-exim.com/prod_intericadlite-sg.html From a 2D layout, it converts to 3D with rendering.

why not design it yourself ? there are numerous 3D software (google sketchup, www.floorplaner.com) to help you ...

illegal contracts are not enforcable. after the 2nd appt, the buyers become the owners. And if the original owners are still living there, they are already breaching HDB rules on rental and subletting.

The holding back of a sum of money as a % of the contract value is within norms of the building industry as it is a form of performance surety. It doesnt matter how much the window cost leh ...

Hi budgetice ... Hmm ... your kitchen countertop doesnt look like it as a lot of space if you are going to cook regularly? From what i see in the 3D perspective .. there are only 3 areas to put things. Enough space for preparation of food and cooking ? The cabinet on top of your sink is the dish rack ? Dont forget to add fluorescent lights below you top kitchen cabinet ... cos the downlights on your ceiling wont be bright enough. For your living room TV cabinet ... how are the wires going to run down from the TV ? It is going to be exposed ?

I always find it amusing that contractors will always have excuses for many things eg "not nice", "this way nicer", "your wall is slanted and therefore like that" Anyway, just to be sure everyone is on the right page. The "gold standard" for testing window water tightness involves: Water intenstity : 300mm/hr Wind pressure : 240 Pa Nozzle inclination: 90 degrees Distance of nozzle from wall: 200mm Sample size: 2m length of window joint Spray duration: 10 mins This is the BCA standard and that is used for CONQUAS assessment. Builders are assessed on that and incentives, disincentives are awarded which will affect them when they tender for public works. If the contractors use other ways to test, it is incorrect - that's why, sometimes when it rains, depending on the window direction, you may or may not have leaks. Unfortunately, consumers like us with such small works offen suffer from sub-standard work ... We should not confuse "expectations" or "kia-su" with "standards". To be objective, we only need to compare the workmanship that has been performed to the national standards (ie CONQUAS). It is either pass or fail - no in between. Standards exist in interior constructions and these standards also take into account minor variations (or what they call as fault tolerance) and if they do not pass the standards, the consumers should not accept ! We should not mistake "bad workmanship" as something acceptable .... Talking about standards, how many consumers ever vet that their electricians are licenced EMA or even have a trade certificate ? Most of the time, consumers always "cross their fingers" and hope nothing goes wrong with electrical work.

The seller is obviously unhappy that he sold the flat for less than he wanted. Before the 2nd appointment, you should call up the law firm and discuss what are the options available and that the seller is not willing to vacate. Letting the seller stay for any period of time is risky. I have seen a number of cases whereby the new owner allows the present owner to stay for another 1-2 months after the completion of sale (ie after 2nd appointment). When the sale is completed, the legal owner is the buyer. Property tax/electrical bill etc is the responsibility of the buyer already. And what most people dont realise is that if there is a fire that breaks out which damages both your new flat and neighbour's flat, it is going to be a big hassle cos it is the legal owner (ie the buyer) that has to pay or settle that. Also, i have also heard of a case whereby the new owner granted an extension after the 2nd appointment and one of the previous owner's family member committed suicide there ... Once the 2nd appt is done, there is no way of abandoning the sale as the title as already been transferred to the new owner. Hope things go well for you ....

You may want to add white fluorescent countertop lighting at the kitchen cabinets. I have 2 ceiling lights in my kitchen and i find it very dim without the countertop lights. Another light i would have added would have been a light above the sink. Are you using any T5 lights for your cove lighting ? The T5 lights would have to overlap each other ... The switches arent very expensive to get in Singapore. You may need more switches for the additional lights. eg 3 gang switches. Another thing to consider is to have ceiling fans, 2 way switch for the entrance, display cabinet lighting, dimmers etc

I was looking at your renovation quote and plans. Electrical works cost can also be substantial ... Have you worked out how many lights and switches you are going to have ?

Near would usually be 5 minutes walk though ....

are you going to do the kitchen table DIY ? Cos even if you supply the wood and pipes, i'm not sure how much the carpenters will charge ... I have seen the build-in kitchen cabinets done by developers for new condos and they also have the bases too. Usually if not needed, they wouldnt have added in this extra cost. It may be for leveling purposes ....

I guess it is always the risk when buying investments overseas ... There are also companies that sell plots of land where they drill for oil ...

the glass sliding door gives a nice open feel to the kitchen ! i have a sliding glass door too but had to put some decorative glass stickers as i'm always afraid i may walk into the glass door ...

Usually before the completion of sale or even before signing OTP, you can do a bankruptcy search or debt repayment scheme search. Sometimes speaking to neighbors and looking/walking around before signing OTP may be helpful .... Some credit companies offer more complete searches eg number of companies they own and whether got outstanding court cases.

The single/double SSO $45/$55 is reasonable and within market norms. I have seen some electricans quoting $85 for double SSO ! The lighting point and installing of lights could be negotiated to a package price ... maybe $35 (instead of $35+$9). I didnt do the rest so cant comment ...

hi fencer, i'm sorry to hear about all the grief you are going through .. It seems that your contractor has abandoned negotiations and wants to go the legal way .... You should also at the same time send a registered letter of demand to the company's registered address stating that the terms of contract has not been performed, giving them 2-4 weeks to complete and if not will terminate the contract because of non-performance and the cost of rectification will be borne by the company ... There are so much confusion and grief when consumers do renovations ... In summary, for other people reading in this forum .... 1. Small contractor firms ---------------------------- There is always a risk when you choose a small contractor firm. Although they may offer one a warranty period on completion of the project, nothing guarantees that the firm will not close down and re-open under a new name ! Also, most firms will always ask for a upfront payment first before you see your renovation work. If the firm is a "one person company", the probability of getting back your money if the firm absconds would be unlikely ... 2. Progress payments ------------------------- Although most firms talk about "standard progress payment" for renovation - there is nothing standard about it. They will demand 10% on signing, 45% on commencement of work etc. Unlike the purchase of new condos where there is a normal progressive payment, all these progress payment for renovation can be negotiated and usually pegged to completion to satisfaction of key milestones. For big building projects there is usually reference to the Singapore Institute of Architects terms and conditions for building contracts. For consumers, there is none although there is an attempt by RADAC to provide a standard contract - even so most ID firms do not use it. In the end, the contract is drafted by the ID company to their benefit. 3. Role of the main contractor --------------------------------- Do not be confused on the main role of the main contractor (ie the ID firm). There is a difference "on being nice" and being taken advantaged of by the contractors. Although the owner may want to be at the site to make sure things dont go wrong, he is not obliged to. The owner is also not obliged to speak to the sub-contractors although he may choose to. Check how are you doing your renovation : 1. Hire an established interior designer This is more expensive. You pay for him to come up with the detailed plans, 3D perspectives and design. Then, you can either find a contractor to execute the plans or the interior designer will also undertake the "build" part (and becomes similar to "2") 2. Hire a "pseudo-ID firm" - general contractors with a storefront This is very common. Most ID firms are "pseudo-ID firms" as they are actually general contractors with a retail storefront. They are seem at shopping centres and Expo. They may or may not have a small team of interior designers and most of the people you talk to are sales people who also undertake the co-ordination work. Most firms offer a few 3D perspectives (quite easily done these days through software) and almost no plans. Some firms outsourced their 3D perspectives out to another company or just re-use previous 3D perspectives. 3. Hire a general contractor These firms do not have a retail storefront and therefore cheaper. 4. Hire many individual trade sub-contractor You hire individual trades people/firm yourself .... and the owner is responsible for the design and build. This risk is that all the sub-trades people will blame the other if something goes wrong. You also undertake the overall risk for third party liabilities .... In 2 and 3, the contract is clear. The main contractor is responsible for the overall design and build of your interior renovation. This is unlike the case whereby you have separately contracted different sub-contractors yourself. And that is why, when you engage a main contractor, the fees and charges are higher because the firm has undertaken the responsibility of providing reasonable standard of workmanship and performance. It is totally unacceptable for the main contractor/ID to shun responsibility when things become difficult and still demand payment although the contract has not been performed to completion. 4. Mis-communications -------------------------- Most consumers do not demand for detailed plans and confusion can be prevented at the "contracting" stage with plans, pictures on what is supposed to be done. The plans or pictures (whether or not you do it yourself) should include electrical plans, lighting plans, air-con duct plan, internal and external elevation plans for carpentry work, ceiling work plans etc . If you do not have any plans/pictures, then when there is a problem, it is harder to resolve .... Most main contractors/ID like to work on giving you very little information and the contract that you have signed is vague on the details of the renovation (eg does not include dimensions, type of materials being used) and no plans on how the plumbing/electrical wires are supposed to run. This usually benefits the firm because when a dispute arises, they will point to the contract not specifying any of that. 5. Workmanship standards ------------------------------- The BCA website has a number of guidebooks on standards for windows, tiling, carpentry etc Look under CONQUAS. Although it used predominately on big projects for quality management, it is also applicable for domestic users. This will provide you a reasonable basis for assessing what is a reasonable standard when assessing your internal renovations ... If you live in a condo or buying a condo, you can also look at the developer's CONQUAS score for their various projects ... interesting reading ! 6. A note on liability issues ------------------------------- Most consumers don't consider this. Do consider third party liability issues - if you general contractor damages your neighbor's unit, a fire breaks out because of the their negligence (eg they cut a gas pipe and lights a cigarette) , the worker falls and injures himself. Would the general contractor be able to cover all these possible risk and remain financially solvent if they are sued for that ? eg do they have insurance cover ? Else, if the aggravated parties are unable to seek compensation from the contractor company, they will come after the owner because of vicarious liability. Also, consider who covers for damages if something happens to your flat during renovation eg if fire breaks out? The usual house and contents insurance do not normally cover for these .... Some ID firms like to bring clients to your house/unit with or without your knowledge, but remember that if they fall or break their leg etc, the owners are still vicariously liable to pay for the injuries. These are the issues that most people dont think of ....

I dont think you need to worry much about the lawyer's letter. The initial one is usually the letter of demand (sometimes it is disguised to look as if it is a court document) from a law firm which is inexpensive. The "sue and counter-sue" stage - subsequently, if the ID firm thinks it is worth pursuing after looking at legal cost, they will proceed with lodging a writ of summons. Anyway, the Small Claims Tribunal is always an option that is open for you as it is inexpensive. It is also not uncommon to hold back 10% of amount owing as completion bond as a form of surety. Good luck in your renovation ....

I was reading this trend with interest ... Most of the work that is done by IDs are in fact general contractors offering consumers a "design and build" contract, whereby the the contractor undertakes the responsibility to design and build. The consumer therefore only needs to have one contract with one company to renovate his place versus having multiple contracts with different companies (eg painter, ceiling works, tiling company). The purpose of having one main contractor is so that the responsibility is clear - the design and completion of the project to a reasonable workmanship standard. This avoids the situation whereby where there are multiple contracts involved and each one with blame each other for the problems. Would it be funny if we bought a house from the developer (who develops it via sub-contracting it to builders etc) and when you collect the keys and the window falls apart, tells us that we have to speak to the individual sub-contractor instead ? Fortunately for new houses, consumers are also protected by the Housing Developers Act which provides for a defect liability period. Back to the original point, consumers are usually on the losing end when doing renovations as most contracts are one sided and does not include any liquidated damages clauses. Most contractors also "cherry pick" the least knowledgeable consumers as there is so much work available for them to do. In building projects, developers are well protected because there is so many safety mechanisms for them eg performance bonds whereby the contractors are not paid if specified standards are not met.

hi moo moo, you need to get a breakdown of the items for the electrical quote eg how many single/double sockets, lighting points, new SCV/tel points etc Else difficult to assess quote ...

hi .. we have tried obtaining quotations from the ID R&R and seems that it is usually on the higher side. We ended up choosing another ID because of the quote and were more comfortable with him. When renovations started after much delay, we realised that being comfortable with the ID person does not necessary translate to less heartache. Lesson learned is that past project references the ID person has done is more important so that you can verify his co-ordination, supervision ability and subcon's workmanship ....