ultimax

Thanks for the further opinions. This is how it looks like. http://postimage.org/image/9rh9nmms9/ It's not super obvious there's a height difference because it's 10mm but it is obvious. You don't need to stare to realise one side is higher than the others. One quick glance and you already know something is not right. Quite a few of our friends already asked why is one side higher than the other so I guess it is noticeable. I'm not particular to the extent that everything must die die be constructed to the exact mm specified in the drawings. But in this case, the usability of the kitchen counter is affected because it is built lower than specified 850mm. 20mm is almost an inch! In the first place, even 850mm is already on the low side. Most of the counters I've seen are about 860mm. At 830mm, I get back strain washing the dishes, and I'm only 1.76m tall! iTalk: The sales contract doesn't specify dimensions other than per foot run. I think most quotations are like that. But the detailed drawings very clearly show 850mm. It's computer generated so all the dimensions are listed out. Sadly, we've already paid up. The end of our renos was quite messy because there were quite a few defects and unfinish works, but we had to move in because time at our previous place was up. Ideally, I would have given myself a few weeks to slowly inspect everything after the ID said renos were completed because a lot of things you don't notice right away. But I had to move in, and the ID was also trying to wrap everything up. The ID did give us a one year warranty against defective workmanship and this is stated in the agreement in black and white. I think this is defective workmanship. At this point, I just want to be treated fairly. The way I see it, what the ID is doing is similar to a shoe salesman telling me I should accept half a size smaller than what I ordered because I still can wear it, eventhough it's not comfortable. No one would accept that from a shoe shop, so why should we from an ID?

Hello as much as I would like to, I would rather not openly state the name of the ID firm as this may complicate matters in future if I boh pian have to take legal action against them. Don't want them to say I'm publicly defaming or bad mouthing them. I do still believe in honest feedback so if you're interested in finding out the firm's name and my experience, just PM me. I can give it to you in private.

Hello everyone, Thanks very much for your opinions. Greatly appreciated! I made a typo in my earlier post. I engaged an ID and not a contractor. He claims his contractor's workmanship is better than what's out there, and his price of course reflects this. But I think this is BS lah ... Sadly, I paid up in full. It's partly my fault because I was too trusting and maybe a bit too lax. There were other problems towards the end, and the ID promised to resolve them quickly. The ID had been OK right up to that point, so in the spirit of "give-and-take" I trusted him and his promises. Big mistake. The remaining works took weeks to finish, and now I'm getting "too bad it's your problem" type of responses. I now know that in this industry, only money gives you power. No such thing as goodwill. I think my only recourse now is Small Claims Tribunal. I just wanted to see if I have a case because I really don't know what the "norm" is in construction. Now I know others think this is unacceptable too, and the detailed drawings back my claim up. Sigh ... it's not that I want to get back at the ID. I rather not have to do this and everyone leave happy. But I really think for a contract that is a five figure sum, many IDs and contractors tend to be dismissive of client requests for rectification. I think it's only natural that if you pay that much, you have certain expectations of standards and quality of work.

Hello Tiler Seng, It's a solid surface kitchen countertop. There are two countertops separated by a wall. One side is 840mm, the other side is 830mm. The drawings say 850mm for both. Contractor say 10-20mm off is normal because they are constructed by humans. Am wondering if this is acceptable?

Hello, My contractor built two countertops lower than what the detailed drawings specified. One is 1cm lower, the other is 2 cm lower. They are both also supposed to be the same height. He doesn't want to rectify them because he said this is normal because in construction nothing is exact. He said even HDB walls are not built exactly to HDB's specifications. I find this hard to believe because why take measurements if this is the case? A few mm off, maybe even half a cm off, I can still accept. But 1 to 2 cm, which is noticeable, surely is not acceptable right? What do you guys think? Thanks!

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Sorry to hear about this bro ... I hate to say it, but real estate transactions and renovations seem to bring out the worst in people. You'll see all types of pattern, some which boggle the mind and make you wonder if there's any hope for mankind But let this be a lesson for your renovations. Never assume anything, always make sure all parties are on the same page, be very careful with the "give and take" because not everyone will extend the same courtesy to you, and always look out for your own interests. Because if the @#!@ hits the fan, you will find there's very little recourse for you. So prevention is better than cure!

I think it's OK as there's depth to the room as the distance from the wall to the wardrobe is shorter than the distance from the door to the window. But if you want to open the space up more, consider having an L shaped wardrobe so you have a wider passage way to the bathroom. Unless there's a window which prevents that. The current configuration renders that bit of the wall dead space. You can only put a mirror or mount wall art. As for the short wall, as long as the door is open, whatever you do with it is irrevelant as the door will block it from most angles. It's only visible when the door is closed. I also think that if you have an L shaped wardrobe, the wider passage will open the room up sufficiently, even with the door and wall in its current configuration. But you wanna play around with the door and wall, here are some ideas. May not be feasible, but that's the whole point of brain-storming right 1. Have the door swing open outwards? That way you won't have the door block in the door. There are practical considerations here, of course. 2. Sliding door? What you're trying to do is minimise the profile of the door so that it visually occupies as little space as possible. 3. Consider having a suspended vanity counter between 2 columns, instead of the current solid wall with vanity behind it. The gaps at the top and bottom of vanity will make the place less clutter. Allows more light into that part of the room too. I think this layout will look stunning visually. Our entrance is sort of like this, though without the island, and being able to look 5+m into the home from the main door makes the place look a heck of a lot bigger than it really is. The main issue is practicality. Some people may find having food preparation areas so close to a shoe cabinet or the door gross as the island's right next to an area where people walk around with their shoes as they enter or leave the house. I don't think this necessarily makes the area more dirty, though. If you entertain around that area, it may feel a bit cluttered, especially if guests bring their shoes in. I can imagine it being a bit of squeeze if people are standing around. For daily living, I don't think this will be an issue. BUT I find one seems to need more space to put on their shoes and get ready to leave the house than you really use. It's like there's enough space to do all that without banging into things, but you still feel the place is too small. Maybe it's because of all the movement, and the space the main door requires to open and close. There's always a bit of manoeuvering which needs to be done. Especially when there's a door closer installed, and your hands are full! You also need to figure out where you're going to sit when you put your shoes on. Will there be a bench? Or will one of the stools around the island serve that function? Or is that little black rectangle next to the door a bench? I would suggest going down to the unit and figuring out how much space you'd like at the entrance. Bring a tape measure and even masking tape to tape out the distances if possible to get an accurate sense of the space As an aside, try to have as much space between the hob and the sink. I personally find that having the main food preparation area between the sink and hob makes cooking that much easier as it really minimises movement.

MISTAKE: Not thinking about how high you want your kitchen counter / bathroom vanity top to be, and going with the "standard" I believe the "standard" height in Singapore is 850 mm. If your contractor is lax with measurements, the counter may even be lower. But if you're tall, this may be too low for you, resulting in a need to hunch your back over. This is made worse if your sink is deep. The depth of the sink can make a big difference to comfort, especially in the kitchen. As you'll be using these counter-tops very often, think long and hard about what's a good height for you. It can be quite a strain if you have to keep bending over, especially in the kitchen. I personally would go with about 900mm (I'm 1.76m and my wife's 1.6m tall), which is apparently the "standard" in the US. We find this to be the most comfortable. Unfortunately, we overlooked this, our ID didn't consult us, so we have a counter that's 830mm high, a deep kitchen sink, and a whole lot of back strain!

Hey no worries Yeah you should have a list of priorities ... that's fundamental to good budgeting. So is discipline. As my wife says, spending a little more here, and a little more there, all adds up. Lights can really be a silent killer. I recognise they do affect the mood/look of the place, but the price difference not only between different designs, but different technologies (PLC, LED, halogen, E27 screws) can be very significant. Personally, I like E27 screw bulbs the most. You don't need complicated transformer systems, the fixtures are cheaper, and the energy saving bulbs are reasonably priced. Easy to purchase too. If you're on a budget, these would probably be the cheapest. There's also no flicker when you switch them on, which some PLC/fluorescent tubes are prone to.

I think you have to first figure out what's necessary (for example, a water heater) and what's a luxury (for example, the Xbox. thought if you're a hardcore gamer, it might not be ...) There are quite a few items on that list that I think most of us wouldn't include because they're not really part of the reno per se, though I do admit with things like a sound system, it depends on how you see it. If you don't filter your list into the musts and the nice-to-haves, the sky's really the limit and your budget will indeed get out of hand. What really jumps out at me is the $3600 for 3 TVs ... surely you could get something cheaper? Also, are your lights LED, PLC or regular E27 (screw bulb) lights? The price you've listed puts them in the range of LED lights ... and you probably should go for the others, which are cheaper, if you're on a budget?

Looking forward to it! I remember those marathon sessions ... feels like only yesterday. Apparently their record is 7+hrs!

MISTAKE: Accepting ID's recommendations of "standard" items without thinking whether you need/want them. Some IDs/contractors adopt a "default" approach when it comes to designing certain areas of your house. This results in some things appearing as "standard" in any renovation, whereas you may actually have a choice of whether you want them or not. 3 things come to mind: 1. Curb for washing machine/fridge. Do you really need a curb? It's $100-200 each. For the fridge, perhaps, just so your kitchen looks uniform. But for washing machine, I personally think the $10 set of 4 plastic blocks is enough. Some say the machine will vibrate and move so the blocks are not ideal. My experience is if you make sure your washing is level and not wobbly, there's no reason why the machine should vibrate that much. Also, the blocks have a little indentation that the machine legs can sit in, so even if it moves, the blocks will move with the machine, and it will not topple over. 2. Shower door/screen. This is a few hundred dollars. Perhaps a shower curtain will be good enough? But I recognise some people like the look of the shower door and that's fine. However, if you aren't particular, perhaps explore using a shower curtain. I've posted my experience with shower curtains elsewhere, and I'm very fond of them. Easier to clean and useful in small bathrooms. 3. Excessive storage space. It's always nice to have more storage space, but do you really need that many cabinets? Think of your usage, and don't automatically go with what your ID recommends. I find a lot of my friends end up having more cabinet space than they really need. You can tell when you open the cabinets and see how empty or poorly used it is. Build only what you need. Because cabinets are charged per foot run, you may be spending a lot more for something you don't need.

MISTAKE: Accepting the ID's recommendations for lighting points and electrical sockets without carefully thinking whether you really need that many lights/sockets. As Zhiz pointed out, you have to really pay attention to lighting points and electrical sockets. Per unit, they may cost only a few tens of dollars. But because your place will have many of them, the total cost can really add up. So, take some time to reflect upon your ID's recommendation of lighting points, and also pay attention to the number of sockets in each room. Ask yourself: Do I really need so many? My ID initially suggested 8 sockets for the TV console area. You can imagine how much that would have cost! I reduced it by half, and even then, I still have a spare socket. I suppose the ID recommended so many because he assumed 1 appliance = 1 socket. But many times, multiple electrical devices can share one socket by simply using an adapter or a power strip. Each socket can support 13 Amps, and consumer appliances rarely use more than a single amp so it's actually very difficult to overload a socket. The main concern is heat but then, 3 devices to one socket is quite typical and safe. The other thing to look out for is what's included in the installation of the electrical socket. Are you actually getting a new socket or will an old one be recycled? In my case, my place is a new BTO, and the ID simply recycled the HDB supplied socket. Sure, they were brand new and should be re-used, but there was no discount. Feel a bit cheated. Also ask yourself: is it a new socket, or is it an old socket being relocated? To be honest, I'm not sure if there's an differentiation, whether relocation or fresh installation will be different. Maybe the industry "norm" is there's only one price. But logically, the prices should be different because I imagine one's easier than the other. In sum, the golden question to ask is: DO I NEED IT? Pay attention to details. I know there are a lot of things in the quotation to pay attention to, but you can save a fair bit by not having unneccessary lights and sockets.

Can ... used shower curtain all my life. For dry floors, the trick is to have a shower curb, and for the curtain to be installed over it so that part of the curtain touches the inside of the curb. That way water will drip down the curtain and onto the shower area, and not outside. Our floors are very dry. To clean the shower curtain I just soak it in a mild bleach solution. All the mould and dirt is gone after that. In fact, it's usually only the bottom that gets dirty. So I just bring a bucket of mild bleach to the shower stall, gather the shower curtain and put the bottom into the pail. So I don't even need to remove the shower curtain from the hooks. If you want to use shower curtains I suggest you spend a little bit more to get polyester curtains. Look nicer, feel nicer, and won't stick together like the cheap PVC type. Even though they're more ex, still less than $50. Compared to the shower screen, shower curtain is much cheaper and as good in terms of function. I also find it works better in small areas where's there's limited space to move around. With a shower door, sometimes it's a bit of a squeeze. But looks wise, some ppl don't like curtains. Others also prefer shower doors. Still, don't dismiss shower curtains as a lousy cheapo option.

Thanks Zhiz for compiling this thread. I think it's important for this info for newbies to be all in one place. Because there are so many areas that a newbie to renovations can be "makan-ed" in, sometimes without even knowing! I know - I learnt the hard way! More contributions: MISTAKE: Being too friendly with ID/contractor, trust them too much, never insist on proper project management admin. If you like your ID/contractor, think they're very similar to you, same wavelength, same interest, would be someone you would be good friends with, be careful! Always remember your ID is a service provider, and this is a business contract. During the renovations, the ID works for you, and is not your friend! There must be a certain amount of give and take, but at the end of the day, this is still a business contract worth thousands of dollars. So make sure the project management admin is done properly, hopefully in black and white. This includes a list of things you will get from the ID, and a schedule of when works will be completed. Never assume your ID will do something because your friend's ID did. For example, not all IDs will give you drawings or detailed plans. Also, make sure they give you a time-line. They will give you a payment schedule. You should insist on a works completed schedule with dates so that you can hold them accountable. Otherwise, things can easily become "rubber" and drag on. MISTAKE: Not giving yourself enough time to spot mistakes at the end of renos. Your ID will typically take you around the house once at the end of the reno to spot mistakes, rectify them, and once that is done, seek full payment. One walk around the house is insufficient for mistakes to be spotted. I would suggest you spend a few days walking through, with as many people as possible, because you may miss something. Even better if you can actually live in the house for a bit because mistakes become a lot more obvious when they inconvenience you (like a door that doesn't close properly, a leaking sink etc). Write the problems down on paper and give them to your ID. Make sure they're accountable. Make sure you withhold your final payment till you're 100% satisfied. Because if you pay in full, and there are problems, your ID will have less incentive to fix them for you quickly. Even if he wants to fix them for you, and is not out to cheat you, he will 100% allocate his resources to clients who haven't paid up in full yet, so you become last priority. With outstanding payment, he will want to fix them ASAP so that he can close the project and move on. MISTAKE: Not setting aside enough time for renos Renos take a lot longer than you think. The design phase can actually take longer than construction because you do not want to accept your ID's proposal right away, but take it home to think about. You also want to make sure your design is what you want, because once construction starts, it's expensive to change anything. And even before, if you keep changing your mind, your ID may start charging you for extra work. So take enough time to reflect upon your proposal, and don't OK everything right away, only to change your mind later. The golden rule is not to rush into anything or you will regret it. The more homework you do, and the more time you have, the better your renos will be. The tighter the timeline you have, the less flexibility you have, and the more corners may be cut. Especially towards the end, when you're hounding the ID to hurry up coz you move in. I find most IDs, esp the young ones, are like children doing homework. It's always a mad rush towards the end of the project because for whatever reason, the first part was slow and they dragged their feet. There will also always be delays. If you know you want to reno, I would suggest you start planning and thinking the moment you get the floorplan. Don't wait till you get the keys. You will not have enough time.

Pros: - For the functions and design you get, Ikea can be much cheaper than custom carpentry. Custon carpentry can indeed be as cheap as Ikea, but the design and functions are limited. Typically straight lines, standard laminate and plain basic drawers. With Ikea for the same price, you can get fancier doors and drawers will all types of features. Or put the other way round, for some of the Ikea kitchen designs, equivalent custom carpentry will be a lot more expensive. For example, some IKEA doors are spray-painted instead of laminated because of the design on the front panel. Laminates wouldn't work here. I think the Stat series is an example. A carpenter, apparently will charge a lot more to do this than laminates. - There's a 10 year warranty on Ikea kitchen systems. Some say it's BS because of the fine print. But let's put it this way - will your contractor give you a 10 year warranty? At least with Ikea, issues like laminate separating and peeling are supposedly covered, IF you use you maintain your kitchen. - Ikea kitchen units are modular and standard sized. If anything breaks, you can replace it quite easily. In fact, after a few years, you could even rejuvenate your kitchen with new doors for a new look! You probably can't do the same with your custom carpentry. Considering the per foot run cost, I don't dare think about how much replacing just a single door might be. I think the labour alone will already be more than an IKEA replacement part! - Can save money because you don't need to build a curb for your kitchen cabinets - Ikea cabinets come with legs. Cons: - Ikea uses a mix of materials, most of it fibreboard or MDF. These are definitely less durable than plywood. - If your kitchen is a weird shape, you may have wasted space size Ikea units are modular. My colleague says if he could redo his kitchen, he would go with Ikea. He renovated it 10 years ago, and everything's already falling apart. He said custom carpentry is over-rated. Perhaps the best way forward is a combination of IKEA and custom work. For one, I would opt for granite or quartz counter, and not solid surface. You could also reinforce the joints between the drawer face and the track. At the ikea showroom, these parts are always loose because of the constant strain of customers opening and closing the drawer. I suppose that represents extreme hardcore usage which can be prevented with a little bit of DIY effort.

Hello, I've read so many posts about renovation horror stories here. The bad experiences range from poor workmanship to ID/contractors running away with the client's money. My own reno experience was also far from ideal, despite having engaged a firm that presents itself a notch up from the industry "average". This got me thinking: why is there no regulation in the industry? Renovations are a huge market so it's not a small industry. The sums involved are also large, often in the tens of thousands of dollars. More importantly, the clients are individuals, not businesses, who may not be familiar with how contracts of that size should be done up, so they can be makan-ed if they are not careful. Very often, we just go with what the ID/contractor suggests because we don't know any better. I think typical payment schedules which demand large sums of money upfront is a good case in point. I can't think of any other industry where an individual has to pay that much for goods he has not received, and has no assurance that there's actually going to be a good in the first place (because the renos haven't started). For the large sums of money being transacted, most of the contracts are very ambiguous. Is it really that difficult to have any form of regulation? I know CASE has a scheme called CASETRUST but I think the take-up is very low. Is it too expensive? Impractical? Or has everyone accepted this as the way things are meant to be?

I've actually used shower curtains all my life. I've never had major problems with mould. Yes, after a while mould can start growing at the bottom of the shower curtain where it is typically damp. But it's usually just a few localised spots, not the whole bottom. To be honest, I'm not sure it's any dirtier or more unhygenic than a shower screen. Also, the silicone joints of a shower screen can also grow mould. I think mould's just a common problem in humid Singapore Re: shower curtains shifting around and sticking to body parts, I personally have not experienced this before. I can see it happening, but only when used with a bathtub. It's a small space, and if the shower curtain is PVC, it tends to be more "sticky." I have polyester shower curtains which don't have this problem. They're thicker and textured. I'm actually a lot happier with my shower curtain in the common bathroom than with my shower screen in the master toilet. In fact, we shower in the common toilet because we just like how our shower curtain looks. It's quite relaxing just looking at it. Also much easier to clean But the important thing is to do what you're comfortable with. If you're used to a shower screen, go for it!

To save cost, have you considered using shower curtains instead of a glass shower screen/door? I notice it will cost you $800+ for both your bathrooms. Some people say shower curtains look "cheap." I think it really depends on the type of shower curtain you use. If you purchase the $6-$10 PVC kind, then yeah, it'll look cheap. But if you spend a little more you can get fabric (polyester) shower curtains which not only look nice, but feel nice. And with shower curtains you can add colour/design to your bathroom quite easily. You can also make your bathroom look a bit bigger because you can pull the curtains back. With a shower door, it's fixed. I also find that they're actually easier to clean. The big problem is usually mould, which appears at the bottom because it's close to the ground. What I do is I dilute some bleach in a bucket, then just soak the bottom of the curtain in the bucket. Don't even need to remove them. I can tell you it's a lot easier than scrubbing the watermarks/scum away from a shower screen door! Just a thought

Thanks for your replies. In my case, I was always prompt with payment. Even though the payment terms were in their favour and sometimes they only gave me a few days notice. I also didn't hound them constantly with questions/updates etc. I trusted them. In that sense, I was a model client. But in the end, still kena makan. That's one reason why I'm pretty mad with the ID. I honoured my end of the deal, but they aren't doing the same on their end. The lesson I've learnt (the hard way) is that in this industry, doesn't pay to be nice. So much for "give and take." If you don't insist on looking out for your own interest, you will be taken advantage of. Sad that there's no more honour and that a handshake is now meaningless, promises are useless

I think "cost" must also be properly defined. Is it "all-in" with appliances and fixtures, or just the ID/contractor cost. And even then, does it include electrical, plumbing and carpentry work?

Hello, We've moved in for a few weeks and slowly defects are surfacing. I suppose this is to be expected because you won't notice all of them in the final walkthrough. We have a one year warranty for defects after our renovations. The contract specifies they will be rectified within a "reasonable time." What's "reasonable time"? It's been over a month since the defects were reported. And is it acceptable for the ID to keep postponing the date and making promises which are not kept? I mean by itself that's already not right, but the industry is so unregulated, I'm wondering if that's the norm post reno, after they've already been paid, and you have no more leverage over them, so they boh hiew you.

If you look at other quotations posted here, it's above the "market rate." Not the most expensive I've seen, but definitely not average. But it's hard to say. Maybe he's really good. Some electricians always take the shortest cut, and don't care too much about looks. And if he's an electrician who your ID uses, and they already have a working relationship, it might be worth paying the extra so that things get done right, and fast.

It can be done. But it's not a good use of money. Each socket costs $50++ to install. Using a power strip extension cord / adapter is a far cheaper option. The only reason why you'd want to install 10 sockets is if you really, really must hide the wiring, or if each socket will draw a significant amount of amperage. Each socket supports 13 Amps. So if you want to run say 3 devices which each use 5 Amps, having one socket will not be enough, and therefore you cannot use a power strip sharing just one socket. But very, very few consumer electrical appliances use that much. Even your aircon doesn't consistently use 5A. Most devices only require milliAmps, or 1/1000th of an Amp.