gkbt

Hi benetay, I have been using the Jupiter water ionizer system for over 5 years already. If you are using a water ionizer sparsely, I would think you should go for the Mavello Mx. My in-laws are still using my older Mavello system and they don't fail that easily. Come to think of it... its already coming 9 years.... Moreover I have heard of ppl bringing the Mavello overseas and using them there with no issues... so stretch those $$$ Cheer Bro! Hope it helps!

Hi Siaboy, I used the mavello b4 when I was still staying with my parents and bought my own set when renting a room. When I finally shifted to my current place I gave my MIL my current Mavello and got the Jupiter system... All in all I would think technology will advance with years and you would be better off getting the latest water ionizer. However if you are old school, go for the Mavello, cant see it failing users expectation. So difference is technology if the price is roughly the same I would go for technology rather than old school... but that's me. hope that helps!

Hi Fong Cheng, I would still recommend you to go for a water ionizer (since I have been using is for a long while now)... the amount of electricity used is insignificant, I would place it like <$2/mth. As for the discharge.... if you know how to use them... it wont be enough... my ration anyway for the discharge is about 30 - 40% of the entire volume... so not that stressful. Do a bit of homework from this forum or visit retail outlets to understand more. If you still prefer an alkalizer water system, go for those who have been around for a while and have a good track record. The simple list I made above could help you start. Regarding the price of the alkalizing water system from focus water.. the base price is already quite high $1688 followed by the filters that needs to be change... (dun have a costing here....) I would say about $250 - $350 for all 4 filters annually for life..... So choose wisely.... and best wishes!

Dear Fong Cheng, Thanks for sharing 2 new water systems suppliers! I'm currently bogged down and cant help to do a long write up. A simple rundown on them. Focus water markets a simple water alkalizer that uses minerals to add alkalinity to the water. Hydroflux is a company that seems to supply water solutions. They have both water alkalizers and water ionizers. Filtration wise they use 0.01m which is the best currently in filtration with minerals. Alkaline wise... i still prefer a water ionzier... but you have to check how much is hydroflux water ionizer cost. Not sure where its made too (must be from Japan or Korea) I do suspect Korea but please do a more detail check.... They are relatively new to the industry as I have not heard of them thus far. Hope the above helps.

Dear Luohan12 Alkaline water systems is split into 2 different types: 1) Alkalizing mineral filters They tend to be cheaper as a 1 time payment but are expensive to maintain e.g filters. minimum 2 - 6 to change. Furthermore then tend to be weaker in alkalinity and have not much or little benefits such as antioxidants, hydrogen, small clusters etc. Types of alkalizing filters..... there are alot of them! Those that come to mind will be HyfluxCleansuiNovitaDiamondAOXCheapest would probably hyflux while AOX would be the most exp. *btw if you see ppl selling those stick that claim to be alkaline... its true to a certain extent of which time frame is a luxury 2) Water ionizers They tend to be slightly cheaper to **** more expensive than alkalinzers, However recurring cost of the filters would be more affordable since probably at most will be 2 only. The alkalinity is constant for years with other benefits such as antioxidants, hydrogen, small clusters etc. Type of water ionizers that come to mind.... again there are lots of them... Jupiter / Vesta / Smart IWatersourceNovitaKYKCleasuiPanasonicKangenCheapest would be Panasonic / Cleansui though 3 plates that create such water is considered obsolete, they do have 5 plates though more costly. Both arer sold in departmental store which tend to give you a good price when there is a mega sale (think close door events Isetan / Robinson etc).... Jupiter / Vesta / Smart I comes from Kemp Trading tend to be value for money, most variety and most experienced in its technology and sciences of this industry by far. Kyk, watersource and Novita have almost similar prices $2k and above with almost similar number of models. Novita is however sold in departmental store which tend to give you a good price when there is a mega sale (think close door events Isetan / Robinson etc).... Kangen is a MLM product that is overpriced and simply average in it output of water but if you are interested in making a living selling their $5K flagship system that's the only company that you can work for. End of the day.... I would say this... go for what you can afford. I personally would buy water ionizers all over again (I own a Jupiter water ionzier after all and feel great about it). Hope that helps.... Have a great Christmas and a Happy New YEAR!

Dear Leonjcxf Thanks for your reply. It is indeed not as high as i have mentioned (Pays to do a more thorough homework lol) however the actual price of $1998 is not exactly cheap either when u compare the specifications of spring with other similar capable filters. Throw in the cost of $310 for filter and $189 for the uv tube... You get the picture. I applaud you for your education in environment engineering and i sincerely do believe that you have learn everything about water treatment. However it does not translate to practical knowledge nor experience especially when applied in another field for example biomedical. Personally i do not think for even a sec that my university education made me what i am today but rather gave me a foundation to understand, in this case the biochemistry for in vivo / vitro (what works inside n outside of a body) The notion of having pollutants or chemicals such as chlorine in our water is compelling for us to get a filter system... The unknown and unseen does make some remarkable strong points. However based on PUB website, the quality of Singapore water is well above the standards set by WHO. If this is not a testament to Singapore's water quality i don't know what else. BTW THM are usually formed with organic material reacting with chlorine, boiling repetitively may have that tendency but its so rare (not sure if you were taught about this or was it spread by word of mouth) The amount of THM in Singapore water is also well below the limit set by WHO. Micron size is very important to the filtration capability of the filter. I believe that you might be mistaken that 0.01m is similar to newater which is actually 0.00001m. Space fibre filters have been in the market for a while now but its expensive. It's also know that some bacteria can pass through a carbon filter which is 0.2 -1m (depending on the compactness of the carbon) but they will not pass through a 0.01m space fibre filter (99.999%). In regards to minerals being removed because of such fine filtration .... there is no cause of concern here, minerals such as calcium are smaller than 0.01m and as such will make it through space fibre filter but not through RO membrane filters. So if you compare a regular marketed filter system VS mlm filter system 1) A mlm product will be estimate 40 - 50% more expensive ($1400 cleansui vs $1998 espring) 2) The recurring cost will be more expensive and weaker in quality e.g. $310 for a 0.2m carbon filter Vs $240 cleansui 0.01m space fibre 3) Technical expertise is next to non existent in mlm because knowledge is not required as a "recommender" where else its a rice bowl for sales n technical staff. I am sorry if I sounded harsh, but if you didn't know by now, mlm has next to impossible odds getting to the top and its marketing strategy on an infinite population is extremely flawed.... which if u asked me is counting your eggs before they hatch. But there are people who try still for the lure of making it big.... By making those on top bigger. Cheers

Hi yc_mw, Interesting that that you saw Vesta at Taka cos Kemp Trading as far as I remember do not do road shows in Shopping centers. The only outlet would still be at International Plaza if I am correct. The difference between Kemp Vs others is that they will go through in detail with you on the technology with zero BS and only facts. If you think its not for you just walk, there is no pressure selling and definitely an eye opener in terms of knowledge. Its been a long while since I saw them but I doubt they have change the way they market their products. If you have read through my post on what I have researched on alkaline ionized water, it would probably similar if not more... after-all I am infatuated with water technology but not that OCD (in a good way) like them. On that note if your hubby is paying for it then let him have the 3M... but be sure to remind him the recurring cost of the filters should be bore by him as well if its too ex... as I have calculated previously Cheers and happy holidays!

Dear Leonjcxf, Thank you for your input. I personally think MLM filter systems are too expensive to be bought by a typical consumer who has no desire make a business out of the products sold by the MLM company (in this case Amway) The cost of the above unit is (without even doing any research) would be in the high $2k approx. Recurring cost (both filter and UV lamp) will be a concern too. Consumer need to understand is that UV is not your solution to removing bacteria but rather the micron size of the filter, the smaller the sizing the better the filtration quality. In this case carbon filter used by Amyway is no sufficient in today standards. Cheers

Dear yc_mw, Appreciate that you look forward to my comments. Personally I do not think filters are the way to go anymore in Singapore since our water is drinkable from the tap with little issues and that is why I subscribe to ionization of my water. However I digress, below are my viewpoints 1) Similar in design (undersink) and capable of producing filtered water. 2) Cleansui is cheaper compared to the 3M filter (about $400) 3) Filter capacity Cleansui - 8000L compared to 2839L for 3M 4) Filter cost Cleansui is approx $240, but I cant seem to find 3M cartridge pricing (however I found a aliexpress seller selling the cartidges for 400+ usd) you probably need 3M filter to be roughly $80 for the whole set to balance up with Cleansui. 5) Filter capability - Both seem to have similar capabilities Therefore if you compare all the above.. What comes ultimately would be the "look" of the facuet and the recurring cost of replacements. If I had to choose either 1, I'll probably take the Cleansui filter for the fact that it has a slightly cheaper startup cost + recurring cost is more affordable to the pocket. Cheers

Hi Natvin,Glad you are reading up on articles to add more knowledge on health. Below are my views, 1) The hydrogen article is written by an advocate of the water ionizers by the name of ROB who markets the TYENT system and now an alkalizer 2) That article is not relatively new research but a forumer put it exteremely well (read Jean-Luc comments / query but did not get a response from Rob) It seems that platinium is required to generate dissolved hydrogen (which is very impt for the body) platinum is the base material for all water ionizers... Coincidental? I dun think so... 3) As for alkalizer filters, the WILL lose its activity after a while (pH, Orp, dissolved hydrogen etc) it's been proven before and if you must experiment, Do a check with your jug now and after 3, 6, 9 & 12. You should see a difference. On reason is that if we do not remove the unwanted (acidic agents in the water) then how would u get alkalinity? Most alkalizer system WILL add something into the water to generate the pH, orp, dissolved hydrogen. But when the added materials are used up what happens? A few post upwards, I have commented on the cost of owning an alkalizer syste, however that was under MLM. Under normal circumstances the system would be cheaper than a water ionizer but more costlier in the long haul. Break even between Alkalizers and water ionizers is somewhere 2-3years if you are just judging conventional marketing not MLM. After that water ionizers will start to become more cost effective. Hope that helps!

Hi Dolphy, You have to ask yourself about what your family needs are and consider the recurring cost of that system. Generally filters are cheap and affordable with acceptable recurring cost. However getting any MLM products will set you back further. If you are looking for water ionizers (e.g the one I'm using) it would cost above 1k, in fact they would cost almost 2k currently. Other water ionizer companies would cost way above 2k. If you are looking for Alkalizers water system then it would also be around 1kish. Suggestion is to short list some vendors and hear them out, if they have experience in the field, they would be able to help you in your decision making. So choose wisely and good luck! Cheers!

Dear Dolphy, Interesting read on the link above.. However there are a few points that might be of interest to you. 1) the product link is under a direct (mlm) marketing. (As mentioned in my earlier post, i do not like mlm because of the fact that its does not provide TRUE quality for the price you pay. 2) the filter might have tons of stone n other stuff, however deeper analysis does not show any to be of clinical properties. 3) the micron size is not significantly small enough (carbon probably gets u 1-0.1m) 4) I shudder at the price that u pay for replacement of filters (approx $340 a year) On a side note if you are considering this as a side business... Then i guess it has its perks. If not i suggest to stay away, there are a lot more filters that are providing better quality and at a cheaper price if you are concerned about the disposing of acidic part of the water. For info sake, There are 2 general drinking alkaline water systems 1) Alkalizers which is what the above system is all about (only mild alkalinity, insignificant antioxidants and unverifiable small clusters). Because minerals are added to the water supply, eventually you get only filtered water (when all the alkaline minerals runout) and hard water (minerals causes hardness) 2) water ionizers which is what created the alkaline water concept (though it has other clinical properties) theses systems split the acid from the alkaline. Hope that helps!

Dear kkboy, Thank you for your contribution, However it seems you are marketing the above filter system via a online shopping platform under Kok Keong Neo This forum thread is about sharing not marketing. Cheers Gkbt

Its true navin, Proper filters currently are able to remove what Metaltab is saying, these filters are available is all water systems including water ionizers. The plates are not about filtration but rather ionization which separates the acidic n alkaline minerals in the water apart so thats they are both beneficial in different aspects

Dear Natvin, Appreciate the time you took reading through those post.... In regards to the Vesta, there are actually the same system. However the difference will be the filters they comes with. If I recall correctly US will come with a 0.1M filter with the option to upgrade to the 0.01 or Ultra water filter (which is not found in Singapore) Singapore's Vesta should come with 0.01M. but I dun think they have the Ultra water filter. As for Panasonic, its quite interesting the prices for the TK-7585 are so much lower in Malaysia compared to Singapore, probably due to the fact that Malaysia has many cheaper water ionizers (made from other countries) that competes for attention and the disposal income of Malaysians tend to be lower than Singapore. Considering all factors, 5 plates systems are now becoming less popular due to the emergence of 7 and 9 plates but still ok for economy reasons. I cant comment on the comparision site as I cant see it here, medical device approvals for water ionizers are as defined as ANY water ionizer system that is produced and made in Japan and Korea. If its made elsewhere they will not have the medical approval number. So do more reseach and feel free to ask any questions here... Cheers!

Dear RLB, Thanks for reading through the pages and pages of info... glad that made some sense lol There are some difference between a faucet mounted and a typical filter. For 1 would be the materials used. Typical faucet mounted filters only contain 1 single material either silverized carbon or the 0.01m space fiber. However both materials have a different role in filteration, the 0.01M is rightly the final material to sieve out the tiny particles up to 0.01M while the carbon is meant to kill bacteria, remove odor and some simple chemicals. Therefore if you asked me.. a typical standard filter that consist of multi-layered materials would suit you best that end with a 0.01M space fiber material. however I would say in my opinion that the lesser the number of filter cartridges the better as that should minimize cost and timely reminders to change. There is no difference between undersink and table top filter other than space saving. Coming to the acidic water, its rather entrenched in my family to use up the acidic water... typically I would store this water for my washing up in the morning and the rest for rinsing my dishes since the container is beside the sink. I do agree that if the acidic water is diverted to another location it minimized kitchen disruption. However that would need planning and unless you have a "clean" slate kitchen to work with, chances it would be tough to route it anywhere far away. I have heard of acidic water going to a cleaning area, yard, garden, washing machine etc. So to say there is no choice would be a tat unfair though I know where you are coming from. All systems that are call Alkaline water ionizers will produce both alkaline and acidic water components, if they don't then they are either filters or Alkalizers (alkaline water) that tries to mimic alkaline ionized water. Hope the above helps! Cheers I stand corrected. I have just seen both of the models of cleansui facuet filters and I I think both would suit you well as they seem to have a multi material. However I think the down side would be frequency of filter change.

Dear Vnsy, 1) The number of plates makes a difference if they are of the same dimension, type etc. The higher the number of plates the wider the range of pH the system can achieve. However saying that, its really difficult to judge and compare between different competitors. Therefore a simpler way would be to check the pH and ORP range that particular system you are looking at can go to. In general, the higher the alkalinity the better for the neutralization of acidic waste in the body. Importantly this high alkaline ionized water must be not generated from chemical additions. 2) The higher the number of filters would generally be more expensive that a singular filter. However its really dependent of the material that's inside the filter. Materials such as carbon are quite cheap and therefore not costly. Another trick suppliers use is the number of materials used. The separating layer is not a special material but rather to prevent mixing of 2 different materials. Some if not all suppliers treat this layer as another stage of filtration which is in my opinion BS. 3) All water ionizer systems that I know have a sensor that measures the volume that has pass through the filter. Therefore it should be accurate to the last liter. 4) Samsung Vesta is something US is touting. The similar system sold in Singapore is simply called Vesta, of course somewhere during the development and manufacturing process that Samsung is involved. Since the Vesta has been around for quite a while now, if that wasn't true about Samsung involvement I would think you should have seen some lawsuits already especially in US. Hope that helps!

Dear Khaw0001, I would recommend you to look at counter top models as they are the most cost effective compared to undersink models. The Venus from what you have mentioned looks really cheap, however I have not heard of it much. I would think looking at other models such as the mavello and alphions, they seem to be quite popular. The filters are changed by the delivery crew (so you dun need to change yourself) and so far priced at $150. There is nothing to wash and clean. Durability would be how long it last, this I'm afraid would depends on how you take care of the system. Lobang wise..... I do know they have exhibitions around this time of the year, most likely in suntec, last year was in August so you are right in their exhibition month. Exhibitions are always the best time to get the systems. Cheers gkbt

Hi Kstoh, No worries, If the strip turns colour, its working. As for information, drop me a msg if you have queries on health or the system. Been talking about this for so many years already.

Hi kstoh, There should be a liquid pH tester with every water ionizer purchased. It should be orangish in colour and will determine the pH of the sample via colours. Litmus papers are good for general testing but eventually it will be not so accurate due to oxidization, based on your blog and if I am assuming correctly, the litmus paper is new and the system is new. Therefore one of them is not working or is not used properly. If you have tested the litmus paper to be working then its the latter that needs investigation. Furthermore you can accurately test the pH value of the sample (in this case water) via a pH meter. Simply buy one from online or from some scientific shops. Accuracy down to the decimal. Do let me know which part of the blog is confusing to you. What is more critically would be: - paying for a water ionizer system should be in direct relation to the high pH / ORP it can achieve. Cheers

Hi Granitetop Saw your Delphi unit. Sweet! Any queries on health do drop me a msg below, lazy to start a blog again.... http://www.renotalk.com/forum/topic/15135-water-filters/ Cheers!

Hi Kstoh, Just bump into your t-blog. Kindly read up on what I input there. http://www.renotalk.com/forum/topic/15135-water-filters/ One thing is sure, what u see e.g. pH / ORP it not actually what you get. Rather its a "preset value" by program, nothing to do whether its alkaline or acidic You might one to retest it again to make sure.

Hi Winguy, Sorry for the delay, AOX is basically an alkalizer system, its does not separate alkaline and acid minerals in our water source but merely add more alkaline minerals into the water to make it slightly more alkaline. However this way means it suppresses the acid side of the water which the body does not need has to be eliminated. Furthermore such alkalinity will not last forever as you would have to replace the alkaline mineral cartridge which would cost quite a bit in the long run. There is a major difference in Alkaline mineral ions and Alkaline mineral compound UV is hugely overstated, coming from a laboratory background, UV irradiation requires 10 - 15 mins to completely sterilize the area of work. this would be similar to water as well, which requires a storage tank to effectively kill pathogens. If there is no tank then the UV will not be effective. Eating dead bacteria and viruses seems ok since its passing our stomach which is acidic and would break down such stuff. There are various brands other than AOX, such as hyflux, swiss pro to name a few. However without ionization (using electrical current, you will not be able to enjoy the actual goodness of alkaline ionized water. Hope that helps

Hi glhc, 1) There are many ways to make water alkaline: A) using soap / detergent = alkaline water... but we all know its really no no for drinking unless suicidal B) using minerals such as sodium bicarb, calcium carbonate etc = alkaline water (its alkaline but the body needs ions not compounds, therefore it will break down this compound to extract the alkaline properties and dispose of the acidic minerals, using methods such as minerals will generally lead to low alkaline production eg. pH 8 - 9 as the filter ages, the minerals are no longer there and you will not get alkalinity anymore and need to replace those alkalizing filters) C) using ionization, basically systems break the mineral compounds for you, and therefore you only take in the benefits and not the unwanted acid properties. Concentration pH which the user can choose range from 8 - 11.5 dependent on system. Even if you are drinking at 11.5... its still considered to be slightly above average in the alkaline pH scale for 7.1 - 14. Don't for 1 moment let others tell you that you cant drink such high pH because natural herbs are at that range.. and furthermore you need such alkalinity to neutralize high acidic diets... generally we always think meats are acidic, how about rice, sugars, beverages like tea, coffee, soft drinks have a pH of 2.5!. 2) Magnetic rings may generate smaller microclusters. However similar systems such as the MRET are actually tested in laboratories showing microclusters similar to those like water ionizers. I am not entirely sure if Hexagon have actually sent the process water and got it tested but MRET cost 2k plus because of the technology, not sure about hexagon water technology. 3) Generally I do not take well with any MLM products. Simple reason is that consumers bear the brunt of the HIGH cost where profits are paid to the rest of the uplines. People might say otherwise, but I personally feel that mlm is entirely not sustainable as a business model and product wise is slightly better or similar to those you can find in departmental stores. 0.01M are known to remove alot of stuff.. Minerals are NOT one of them. Ionization is the basis of breaking down minerals into its elemental form, without minerals you won't get alkaline water... I hope the above helped!

Hi Faykin, The running cost of the dual filters will amount to almost $280 if its $140 each, $200 discount has always been available especially festive periods and road shows as far as I know since they started. Moreover the 25000 is no longer sold in other parts of the world. It was already replace by the KYK 30000 or Gen 2 systems sometime back. In regards to cash rebates.. its an interesting development, something that might work elsewhere but I think Singaporeans do not like to know they are "paying $250" to another party when they buy something. But then who knows it might work? Time will only tell on their latest marketing methods... compared to their other previous methods.. Cheers!